OMG!! You are being biased in case of Business Edition. It should be $100! $40 for "our convenience"???

I was just about to say finally!

The fact that this is for North America alone baffles me. Doesn't the rest of the world need this just as bad if not more then US and Canada?

One would think that MS would make even more money if this was available worldwide.

The Windows Vista Family Discount program sounds like a good idea for families with multiple PCs, and may stop the slide of older computers being turned into Linux boxes.

I havent been to the linked site yet for all the details as the link didnt work when I clicked it, so I cant really comment on the pricing stucture to much.  I know that those in the UK and Europe will be a little dissapointed that program is US and Canada only.  With the market threat of Linux greater outside the US, I would think that this program should be extended worldwide.

how many computers can you install Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit Edition DVD - OEM - on????

what is the differences between the oem vershion and the none oem???

Questions remain to be answered:

1)  Will the additional 2 home premium licenses be upgrades or full versions?

2)  There were no volume licensing schemes for XP full versions (only for upgrades).  Are there now volume license pricing for full Vista now?  This will be a first for MS OS.....

3)  Humm, I need to buy a copy of ultimate to qualify for this, and it is not for additional ultimate licenses?  Nuts......

Thank you for this information Nick. This will go a long way to making Windows Vista more accessible.

There is still much we would like to know about the upgrade processes to be followed.

Here are some examples of questions we are asked now on a regular basis, in respect of particularly clean installations using an Upgrade version of Windows Vista:

*Must one first do/have an install of the "earlier version of Windows"?

*If one runs a clean install from within say Windows XP using the Upgrade version, will it actually reformat the drive you are running it from at the time of carrying out the clean install?

*Is the upgrade disk going to ask for some sort of verification of possession of a legitimate "earlier version of Windows" if one runs the clean install by booting from the Upgrade disk?

*Is it even be going to be possible to boot from the Upgrade disk or must it be run from within an "earlier version of Windows"?

Answers to these questions are not available from any of Microsofts Windows Vista information sites and clarity on these processes would be great to have.  

Gee, I thought that this was great news until I saw the "US/Canada only" line. Why is the rest of the world getting the sore end of the stick -again-? We already have to pay nearly twice the US price here.

This is just getting ridiculous.

So, Windows Family Discount is valid in North America only? Well, thanks very much, I don't think. As Bas says, we already have to pay nearly twice the US price here in Europe, and now this announcement about Windows Family Discount is a further slap in the face. I'm not impressed.

Assuming that I had nothing to complain about Vista, this deal would still not interest me.  

First, Ultimate's price is insanely high in the first place.  

Secondly, you are offering 2 lesser products, if I upgraded them to ultimate, it would could 200$ a seat, not 50$.  What possible reason could I have for having 1 seat of ultimate and 2 lower seats?  I would want every machine to run the same version at home for a whole slew of reasons.  This just doesn't make sense to me at all.

Even if you average down the costs, you are still talking about 300$ a seat for 3 seats.  Who the heck things that is a good deal?  No one in their right mind.  Vista just isn't that good - if it had everything that was original promised and had flawless driver support, it would STILL not be worth 300$ a seat for home computing.

Now, let's get this straight.  I can buy a computer for less than 500$  What the heck makes MS think it is acceptable for Windows to cost MORE than the computer it is running on?

Once you combine this with the fact that Vista isn't a tenth what was originally promised AND its driver support has thus far proven to be poor at best, MS is lining itself up for one heck of a hit, if not yet another round of litigation.

You know, it is funny.  I pre-ordered by Win95, was there at 9am to pick up my copy just to be sure, so it is not like I'm a rabid linux ms hating fanboy.  I am a customer who has simply been pushed too far by insane pricing plans and poor product quality.

Once the drivers are in place, maybe my anger will abait somewhat, but that price... My gods, what are you people thinking?  Are you trying to drive people to Linux?  Just remember, the next time one of your lawyers stands in front of a judge and argues that MS considers linux serious competition with a straight face - that lawyer is worth every penny you paid them to give up a promising acting career.

Why is the vista anytime upgrade only available to those specific territories?? what about us in africa??

Yes, as Grav!ty indicates we at the Windows Featured Community's are being hit more and more by the question of will Clean Install still be possible in order to Install an Upgrade Copy of Vista as long as you can verify your COA for XP ??

Wow,

So us here in Australia are really screwed!

We don’t get the Family Pack Or the Anytime Upgrade!

Gee thanks guys!

Not to complain, and I understand that Apple makes its money on hardware...however, OS X v10.4 Tiger Family Pack(for 5 seats) is $249.00....

Additionally, as noted previously, the Windows Family Discount, is a downgrade...why the downgrade from Ultimate to Home Premium?

I like others would like to know if you have more than one drive (I have two0 the one is a small one with my OS drivers on it the other a large one .Will the drvers on the smaller one be earased and the new drivers relced there or all new ones on the larger one.also I am running XP Pro Media Center Edition 2005 Rollup, do I do a clean install or upgrade?

Microsoft today unveiled a family discount plan for households containing Multiple-PC's. This is something

Awesome news! Thanks guys!!! (people sure do like to complain here) Microsoft is the greatest company ever!!!

All of these programs are good news.

Xepol: The upgrade price for Vista Ultimate is $250 at Amazon. Add two Home Premium licenses and the total goes up to $350. Not cheap but not too bad. Not everyone will want/need full Ultimate licenses on all their PCs.

Customers outside of North America have a valid complaint. Hopefully these programs will be extended worldwide soon.

I just can't wait to get rid of all of these betas. I am ready for the real thing!

To MayoStudenT

(people sure do like to complain here)

You would to Twit, if these “Awesome” programs weren’t available to you.

Anyone from MS care to comment on the international pricing of Vista or the unavailability of these programs? Nick? Jim?

I love this - but I want to put Ultimate on all four of my PC's. Can't we work out a deal to upgrade > 2 for some waaaay lower amount?

ColDFiRe: They don't sell Microsoft products in your country? Oh, and thanks for the name calling.

Keep up the great work Microsoft!

I was very happy to hear the chatter about a family discount, ever since Paul Thurrott mentioned it.

I actually told a bunch of my friends they will finally be able to upgrade all of their machines for a bit less then usual.

And now this slap in the face...North America only! I'm just stunned.

If this actually does happen I'm not buying a single retail license of Vista. Sure I'll get it on my new laptop, but I definitely won't be upgrading my other machines.

I actually expected Ultimate to be a bit more flexible when it comes to licenses. Allowing us to use it in a (one would do) VM (similar to the Enterprise edition) or perhaps for the creation of a LiveCD...

Hopefully this isn't the final.

MayoStudenT,

Yes, they will Sell Windows Vista in Australia.

But not the family pack.

So it means I’m NOT going to upgrade my 3 computers. Making this entire marketing thing a joke.

U.S. only ptff!

Well this seems better: "If you purchase a retail copy of Windows Vista Ultimate edition between January 30th and June 30th of this year you are entitled to up to two Windows Vista Home Premium licenses for $49.99 a piece (US and Canada Only initially)."

http://windowsconnected.com/blogs/joshs_blog/archive/2007/01/18/windows-vista-ultimate-edition-friends-and-family-plan.aspx

Windows Vista Team Blog : Multiple announcments today 모두 미국에 관한 이야기이기 때문에 우리나라에서는 어떤 식일지 모르지만, 참고할 수

Nick,

On the surface, it sounds good.  What provisions are there for those who have downloaded the beta?  Will there be an option to download the full product activation key? Just a question.  I'm not looking for any handouts.

Thanks!

Nick,

Just a quick follow up to my previous question.  Reading the Upgrade Information from the Beta 2 Customer Preview Program included, it stated that, “Upgrades to the final version of Windows Vista from this Beta 2 may not be supported.  The installation of any operating system (Windows Vista final version or otherwise) on top of Beta 2 may require a clean installation…”

The wordings I’m particularly focused on are the words “may not be supported” which is not definitive.  Have there been any subsequent changes in this agreement that you know of supporting upgradability?

So, by the article the Family pricing is supposed to help families with multiple computers.  It states that if a family has more than 5 licenses, then they should go to open source (read: business) licensing.  The article states how to buy three licenses, but never covers how to purchase four or five licenses.  It seems they have left the four and five computer families to have to pay a lot more.  The family pack should cover up to five computers, not just three (like OSX and Anti-Virus Software products cover).  It should also allow not only Vista Home Premium, but also additional Vista Ultimate licenses at a discount rate.

Fewer than 5 means 5 or less --that is, if I'm interpreting the lanquage correct the Nick is using.

The lanquage should have really stated, "up to 5 or less."

Why are all the offers limited to the US and Canada? Canada is a different country to the US as are all the others in the world. When are the rest of us going to get some offers?

*Starts crying cos he's not American*

Hey Sephiroth:  there's no further discount offered for Beta testers; sorry, but that's not part of the program.  With resepct to support of Beta2 and other pre-RTM versions, we announced not long ago that we'll support these releases in English.  At the time we drafted the proviso you mention, we were unsure of having then ecessary resources to do this, hence the wording you've pointed out.

http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2006/12/13/announcing-customer-preview-program-cpp-best-effort-support.aspx

Thanks Nick for clarifying this initiative.

And rather than limit it to North America, I trust you will soon be able to announce it for other key countries - like us here in Australia.

Can anyone please clarify if the upgrade editions of Vista can be used to clean install? In other words, can you install these editions of Vista on a formatted hard drive?

Where is the support for other countries?

Why is the Family deal only for US/ Canada and other countries need to pay full price?

And if it does get released for Australia, make it equal to US$49 (aboutAUD$60) and not (I am betting) AUD$99. Vista pricing over here is already over the top with some version AUD$200 more than if bought in the US and posted over!!

Gabriel -> your math is solid but based on a flawed premise.  Who wants 1 copy of ultimate and 2 copies of home premium.

That would be 250+50+50+150+150, that's 650$, suddenly it isn't as attractive again.  And that is based on the concept that the upgrade version of vista ultimate is eligable.  I don't read this announement like that.  I read it as only offered with a FULL version of Vista ultimate, which quickly brings the price upto 900$.  Maybe MS should clairify here.

And while they are at it, perhaps they could clairify why anyone would want a copy of ultimate and 2 copies of home instead of 3 copies of ultimate.

If it was 50$ each for 2 copies of ultimate, then it would start to seriously average down the costs and make financial sense (the issue of buying vista itself making sense being a totally different topic)

Hey Posted by michaelau:  the term "upgrade" means exactly that -- you need to have another Windows OS as a base from which to install these versions of the Windows Vista OS; IOW, a clean install will not work.

Pity Australia is left out of the deal oh we used to being neglected by Microsoft.

Nick,

Paul Thurrott's write-up states that the discount would apply for 2 additional Ultimate licenses @ $49 each.  "Customers who purchase Windows Vista Ultimate, the most expensive Vista version, at retail will be able to upgrade two more PCs in their home to Vista Ultimate for $49.99 each."  This contradicts what you have written... Could you please confirm?  Also, Windows Home Server looks really cool and I plan on buying the software once it it available.  Will machines on my network with Home Premium be less accesible by the WHS than a machine with XP Pro?  I am concerened about the lack of remote desktop in the Home Premium addition...

Hey cwagz:  Paul is incorrect; the discount is for 2 copies of Premium if Ultimate is purchased first; Ultimate is not part of the upgrade benefits, although one could subsequently upgrade to Ultimate from Premium if so desired.

I've been working with the parties responsible for this program since November, so I'm fully confident in this answer ;)

Nick,

Thanks for the reply... I figured you would be right on this, but I had to ask anyway.

What do you think about Windows Home Server and Vista Home Premium?  I thought I read somewhere that in order to be able to use all of the WHS features the client machines would need to be XP Pro, Vista Business, or Vista Ultimate...  If Vista Home Premium will be able to use all of the WHS features then I will be picking up Vista Ultimate and the two discounted licenses on the 30th for sure!

Hey cwagz:  Forgive me, but could you clarify what you mean by 'WHS' ?  I want to give you the correct answer w/o making an incorrect assumption.

(And I thought we at MS were the only ones who bandied about acronyms ;)

Sorry, WHS = Windows Home Server

http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/whs_preview.asp

http://www.stopdigitalamnesia.com/

Windows Home Server has made my choice between Vista Home Premium and Vista Ultimate more difficult because I want to be sure I am not losing any of the remote desktop functionality that WHS appears to offer...

Paul states in his preview, "What's amazing about WHS, however, is that it also offers these facilities (file sharing, etc...) remotely, via the Internet. To make this work, Microsoft is providing WHS users with a free Internet address via Windows Live. This address will give you a remote interface into your entire home network, not just WHS. You will be able to access any shared folders remotely, or even control individual PCs remotely."

So my concern is this:

Will a Windows Home Server be able to remotely control a Vista Home Premium machine even though Vista Home Premium does not natively support incomming remote desktop connections?

Nick on the microsoft website it states we can do a clean install with an upgrade copy. Are you saying this information is incorrected??

I quote:The options

You can upgrade from your current edition of Microsoft Windows XP or Windows 2000 to a corresponding or better edition of Windows Vista by purchasing and installing an upgrade copy of Windows Vista. Depending on which edition of Windows you are running and the edition of Windows Vista you would like to install, you have two options for the installation process:

In-place upgrade

You can upgrade in-place, which means you can install Windows Vista and retain your applications, files, and settings as they were in your previous edition of Windows.

Clean install

Upgrading to Windows Vista with a clean install means that you should use Windows Easy Transfer to automatically copy all your files and settings to an extra hard drive or other storage device, and then install Windows Vista. After the installation is complete, Windows Easy Transfer will reload your files and settings on your upgraded PC. You will then need to reinstall your applications.

So, Nick, could you give us any sort of reply on the international pricing/Family Discount issue?

Nick can't you change the release date too oh um, say January 20 2007.  Computer enthusiests around the world would thank you.

Lots of content tonight and a bunch that I could not cover in the show but all the juicy stuff is in the show notes. Big thanks to the Ohana that stay Subscribed. Sponsors: [Save 10% off on any order...

Lots of content tonight and a bunch that I could not cover in the show but all the juicy stuff is in the show notes. Big thanks to the Ohana that stay Subscribed. Sponsors: [Save 10% off on any order...

Thanks for not offering ANYTHING to Australia.

Hi again cwagz:  Windows Home Server will provide remote access to the Remote Desktop functionality of any Windows PC that supports Remote Desktop.  The following Windows versions and editions support Remote Desktop connections:

- Windows XP Pro

- Windows XP Media Center Edition

- Windows XP Tablet PC Edition

- Windows Vista Ultimate

- Windows Vista Business

- Windows Server 2003

The following editions and versions of Windows do not support Remote Desktop and thus will not be accessable via the remote access capabilities of Windows Home Server:

- Windows XP Home

- Windows XP M

- Windows Vista Home

- Windows Vista Home Premium

I have a few questions about the Family Discount.

If I purchase Ultimate (Full Version), will the Home Premium licenses also be full versions or will they only be upgrade versions?

Will these Home Premium licenses have the same retail terms as my Ultimate license or will be have more restrictions? Specifically, will they each be tied to a single machine?

You mentioned this was for users who want five or less licenses, but you only mentioned a discount for two. Are there any discounts for people who want to upgrade more than three machines?

I have another question about the Family Discount. Does this work with any copy of Ultimate purchased anywhere, or do I need to purchase it through a store holding this special promotion?

Does anyone know if the "upgrade" from xp to vista will be available via Windows Marketplace?  Also, what will be the size of the download?

Hey stefan9:  Nothing in the text you quote states that an upgrade version of Windows Vista will allow you to perform a clean installation.  Sorry for the confusion, but that is not possible.

If clean installs aren't supported for upgrade versions, would I have to buy a full version of Vista to upgrade my computer that came with XP x64?  I am wondering this because I thought I read before that XP x64 could not be installed as an upgrade to Vista x64 and would need a clean install...

I forgot to add that I am also running RC1 x64 right now, but we did get the media with the computer so I do have the XP x64 disk.

Nick, if it wasn't for the Vanishing Point Game, I wouldn't be able to wait these last 10 days. That said, I've a question re: RC1 users anytime upgrade. Will it work? Can you pay your money and be released?

THE UPGRADES FROM HOME BASIC OR HOME PREMIUM TO ULTIMATE ARE EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE DIFFERENCE IN THE PRICES OF THESE EDITIONS. LIKEWISE THE BUSINESS EDITION UPGRADE SHOULD BE $100. HOW DOES MICROSOFT JUSTIFY THE EXTRA $40? I'M NOT GOING TO UPGRADE EVER THEN.

Nick,

Thanks for the clarification.

The Vistablog blogs about the upgrade pricing of Vista... and it's something I think us SBSers need to

Thanks for the info Nick!

I guess I could always purchase the 2 Home Premium licenses under the promotion and then do an Anytime Upgrade at some point in the future if I end up finding a need for the remote desktop functions...

How I have used a "Clean Install" in the past is that I reformat the boot drive I would then boot from the new OS and do a clean install to the boot drive. As part of this process the install routine  would ask you to insert the CD/DVD you are upgrading from. Once it had checked it the install would continue. This has worked since win98 and also works for MS Office. Is this method of clean install still supported as it has been in the past ?

Nick:

What does the 'Clean install' on that website imply then? I always assumed a clean install meant on a fresh drive with no previous version of Windows installed?

Nick,

Just curious... Why not offer discounted Ultimate licenses as well?  Say like $99 a piece instead $49...

Convenience comes at a price, just like at a "convenience store"

The anytime upgrades are overpriced. Especially given the cost of upgrading today from XP Media Center to Home Premium.

It's a cool and nice idea but you kind of botched it with the cost factor.

So folks, if you want to save money, decide what upgrade you want to end up with when all is said and done.

And then buy it now.

wah wah wah, stop crying people, Vista is a quality product, well worth the money, having 1 machine on Ultimate & 3 on home premium is not a big problem, and yes we here in the US have some perks for being in the country where MS is from, and Canada ia like our attic, so we include them too, so stop crying...

lol...

Nick, Why are you ignoring the questions about why this Family Discount offer is only available in the US? As it is the UK is being ripped off with Vista prices compared to the US,  We should at least be able to have access to this offer.

Price in the UK is all relative, you guys make the same QUANTITY of Pounds as we make in Dollars, it just happens that your Pounds are worth twice as much, everithing in the UK costs twice as much as in the US, if you convert the prices to dollars, don't single out MS for a practice that is followed by all retailers & manufacturers.

A Starbucks latte in the UK costs 3 Pounds, when here in the US it costs 3 Dollars, I don't see you up in arms against Starbucks...

The price for Vista will impact your pocket book with the same force that it will impact us in the US, no more / no less...

If anything, if Vista Ultimate was 200 pounds in the UK, it would be cheaper for you to buy, beacuse you make more money than us, if you were to convert your anual salary to dollars.

To Dante,

So to follow your logic, in Hong Kong, Vista should cost abour HKD399 instead of USD399?

Sorry to hijack this thread but it is January and 12 days to Vista retail launch....

Where are the final drivers to my Lifecams!!!!!!

To Marshall,

Thats not it at all, & I am not aware of the value or cost of living in Hong Kong.

All I am saying is that if something costs 5 US Dollars in the USA, the same product usually costs 5 British Pounds in the UK.

I have been to London recently, and I found this to be the case with most products.

So I was saying that it is unfair to single out MS for this, when it is normal practice for most if not all retailers & manufacturers to do the same.

Is it fair to UK citizens?

Not really, but in the time it takes you to make 400 British Pounds ($800 Dollars), we make $400 US Dollars (in a comprable profession). BUT what you buy with 400 Pounds, we buy with $400 Dollars. So what I am trying to get at, is that a UK citizen paying 400 Pounds for Vista, has the same economic impact to their wallet as a US Citizen paying 400 Dollars for the same product.

This is the very reason that UK citizens flock to Florida for "holiday", other than the sunny weather the UK lacks, everything is so much cheaper to them, because their Pounds are worth so much more. An average citizen can come here and have an extravagant vacation (holiday) they could not afford in the UK.

So, anyway, my point is: the cost reflects the local economy, and especially in the UK this is common practice.

Hey esvfi, et al:  sorry that it might appear that I'm ignoring your comments; the truth is, far from it.  I'm working with a our Product Manager responsible for the offer to make sure that I have complete answers for you.  Please bear with me as I will post them as soon as I'm able.

Perfect, I'm looking forward to the response. I can understand localisation costs and adjusting the price to the 'economic impact' it would have to people in each country, but seriously, a 177% price increase?

As to the clean install issue, the vista site does state:

"Notes:

If you are currently using Windows 2000 Professional or Windows XP Professional x64, you are eligible for an upgrade copy to a corresponding or better edition of Windows Vista, but a clean install is required."

This does seem to indicate that the retail upgrades will do clean installs. So is it a confusion between "anytime upgrades" and "retail upgrades" or is it true that retail upgrades do not allow clean installs as previous versions have (with a required disc check?)

The question which is more impotant regarding Anytime upgrades is the EULA.  It seems to state that by purchasing an Anytime upgrade my transfer rights for a Retail product will go from unlimited to one time and that third party transfer will require hardware transfer too.

"15. REASSIGN TO ANOTHER DEVICE.

a. Software Other than Windows Anytime Upgrade.

You may uninstall the software and install it on another device for your use. You may not do so to share this license between devices.

b. Windows Anytime Upgrade Software.

The first user of the software may reassign the license to another device one time, but only if the license terms of the software you upgraded from allows reassignment. "

The second part of "b" covers OEM software so the one time transfer limit can only apply to anytime upgrade from retail.

"16. TRANSFER TO A THIRD PARTY.

a. Software Other Than Windows Anytime Upgrade. The first user of the software may make a one time transfer of the software, and this agreement, directly to a third party. The first

user must uninstall the software before transferring it separately from the device. The first user may not retain any copies.

b. Windows Anytime Upgrade Software. You may transfer the software directly to a third

party only with the licensed device. You may not keep any copies of the software or any earlier version. "

If the Retail license terms will not stay in place with an anytime upgrade what would be the point, you convert a retail license to a psuedo OEM license.

In order to avoid all the confusion regarding the retail upgrade "clean install" I just ordered Vista Ultimate x64 OEM with some approved hardware for my homebuilt machine.  I could not handle the idea of having to install my XP Pro OEM just to turn around and install the Vista Retail Upgrade afterwards..  I have always used OEM software in the past so I think it was probably the best choice.

It is too bad that you have to chose between x64 and x86 when purchasing OEM.  Hopefully x64 will catch on pretty fast.

Just peachy... now if the copy of Vista Business (which I bought retail) would acutally work with WMDC ..... golly I could actually use my Windows Mobile 5 phone again.  I cant fathom that they released this turkey.

thx for share.

http://www.dl4all.com

Nick, I am very curious about this program. What would we get with this program?

1) Would we simply receive a key, or will we be given a DVD for the home premiums?

2)Will the home premiums be upgrades or full install discs?

3)If we do not get a DVD, will we be able to download a copy, or must we do the install with our ultimate disk?

Thank you.

http://www.apcstart.com/5139/australians_locked_out_of_vista_downloads_and_discounts

VISTA IS OUT! Go to http://www.newegg.com   and then type in on Neweggs website "Vista Home Premium"Newegg is selling it early and cheaper! I am serious....i just bought mine today along with a new PC!